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InnleggSkrevet: Tir Okt 11, 2016 4:42 pm
GobberInnlegg: 20Registrert: Man Jul 04, 2016 10:28 am
Hi all!

Is there any interest here to start a Mordheim campaing? I have just finished painting my first warband, so I'm ready for it. I'm running a Skaven band, and I've got another of, still to be painted, Witch Hunters.

The rulebook can be found for free at https://gurth.home.xs4all.nl/mordheim/, together with a bunch of the Town Cryer expansions and details for all warbands. I'll print a copy to have at hand during matches anyway.

If there is enough interest we'd have to discuss details and such. Prior experience dictates that there must be some handicap for underdog warbands, otherwise the level gap gets too large too quick and stops being fun.

So that's it, let me know if you are interested and we can start penciling down the details.

Mvh,
Tomas


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InnleggSkrevet: Ons Okt 12, 2016 9:45 pm
ThornInnlegg: 855Bosted: OsloRegistrert: Lør Des 03, 2011 8:28 pm
Me and a few other KoW-boys are currently deeply involved in a KoW-campaign that will last about 3-4 more weeks. After that I am interested to join a Mordheim campaign.

-T



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KoWboy og Cog of Cyriss
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InnleggSkrevet: Fre Okt 14, 2016 11:38 am
Holy ZealotInnlegg: 26Registrert: Lør Aug 18, 2012 8:07 pm
If i can make an orc and goblin warband id be interested. Again never played, think i had the rule book once.


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InnleggSkrevet: Fre Okt 14, 2016 2:40 pm
GobberInnlegg: 20Registrert: Man Jul 04, 2016 10:28 am
After I chat with a couple of people yesterday, we decided to wait until the KoW campaign is finished before starting the Mordheim campaign. That should be 3-4 weeks, I believe.

In the meantime, here is a list of ideas about how to fix the rules to make it more balanced and fun. It is, of course, a draft, so please feel free to comment and discuss any of the points.

Warband rating / underdog handicap
    1. The current way of rating doesn't include the equipment, which often makes a big difference. To have a better handle on the rating, one should add the rating associated with the equipment as follows:
      - Common items have 1 pt of rating per 10 gc of their price (e.g. heavy armour costs 50gc, so has rating of 5). Items cheaper than 10 gc have no rating, they're just not that important.
      - Rare items have a rating equal to their rarity (e.g. a blunderbuss is Rare 9, so has a rating of 9)
      - Ithilmar / gromril items add the rarity (9 or 11) to the rating of the weapon, consequently ithilmar armour counts as rare 11 light armour and gromril armour as rare 11 heavy armour.
      - Magical artifacts count as Rare 12 for rating purposes
      - Golden crowns in storage count as 1 pt of rating per 10 gc.

    2. In order to make each game more balanced, the warband with the highest rating must only bring to the battle a subset of its members. It must bring a combination of its members / equipment that reduces its rating to within 100 pts of the underdog (but never below). Leader must always be included. Heroes in reserve can't be used for exploration.

    3. In addition to the +1/+2 experience the underdog gets for fighting a warband with 50-75/75-100 more rating, they also get +5/+10 gcs.

Shooting
    1. First and foremost, there should be a limit on the number of warriors with range weapons in a fighting warband (no limit on range weapons on storage or warriors in reserve). Only 1/3 of the warriors (rounding up) can have range weapons and only 1 range weapon each (brace of pistols counts as 1). Additionally only up to 1 hero can have range weapons.
    2. In order to favour combat vs shooting, long range shooting is heavily penalised
      - No critical hits can be scored from a long range shot
      - When shooting from long range, the target gets a chance to avoid the shot. This could be either an initiative test or a dodge 5+ (not sure which one is better)
      - Long range shots count all cover as hard cover (see below)
    3. Maximum 1 blackpowder weapon in a fighting warband (no limit in storage)

Cover and terrain
    1. Line of sight clarifications: only the torso and head of a model are counted for line of sight. Arms, legs, bases, wings or other appendages do not count for line of sight.
    2. Changes to cover, intended to nerf shooting as well giving more cover
      - If up to 50% of the head and torso of a model is covered by terrain the model is in soft cover (-1 mod)
      - If more than 50% is covered and the cover is a building, wall, ruins, etc the model is in hard cover (-2 mod), otherwise it's soft cover
    4. Reduce the movement penalty of very difficult terrain to 1/3 of movement (rounding up). Or perhaps ignore very difficult terrain altogether.
    5. Changes to hiding, again to nerf shooting allowing models to hide easily
      - Any model with at least 50% of their body (torso & head) covered from all enemy models can choose to hide in the movement phase (think of this as kind of going to ground and out of sight)
      - Hidden models are discovered if an enemy model moves within their initiative range or to a position than can see more than 50% of the body.
      - Hidden models can charge out of hiding but must pass an initiative test to do so (because technically they do not have line of sight to the target). If they fail the test or fail the charge they are no longer hidden

Campaign
This is my suggestions on how to run the campaign, aimed to allow anyone to join/leave with no problem. It obviously depends on how many people we get to play in the campaign.
    1. Randomly determine who plays against who in the first round, making sure whenever possible that each starting warband has a matching starting warband. In case of odd numbers the leftout warband can have a free exploration at the end of the round with half (rounding up) of the heroes.
    2. Carry on like this making sure that matchings are not repeated, and rotating who is leftout for odd numbers of players
    3. Depending on how many players, we can run until everyone has played against everyone else once, or perhaps twice in case of low numbers (aiming for 5 - 6 games each at least)
    4. In case of newcomers halfway along the campaign, they start fighting the other players in increasing rating value.
    5. After a determined number of games each, we can have a grand finale, a custom scenario with the 3 or 4 highest ranking warbands to conquer Mordheim!

That is all I can remember from what we discussed yesterday, I'll edit if anything else comes to mind. Please comment or suggest on anything about what I wrote, it's possible that I went a bit too far with changes or that some things do not make sense.

Mvh
Tomas

P.S. Orc & goblin warband is more than welcome! I remember them being very fighty and strong. You can find their rules here
https://gurth.home.xs4all.nl/mordheim/Warbands/Orcs.pdf


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InnleggSkrevet: Man Okt 17, 2016 11:15 am
Holy ZealotInnlegg: 26Registrert: Lør Aug 18, 2012 8:07 pm
Great thanks ill try to get acquainted with the rules.


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InnleggSkrevet: Tor Nov 24, 2016 12:57 pm
TrencherInnlegg: 95Bosted: LillestrømRegistrert: Tor Jan 28, 2010 7:32 am
tegonzalo skrev:
After I chat with a couple of people yesterday, we decided to wait until the KoW campaign is finished before starting the Mordheim campaign. That should be 3-4 weeks, I believe.

In the meantime, here is a list of ideas about how to fix the rules to make it more balanced and fun. It is, of course, a draft, so please feel free to comment and discuss any of the points.

Warband rating / underdog handicap
    1. The current way of rating doesn't include the equipment, which often makes a big difference. To have a better handle on the rating, one should add the rating associated with the equipment as follows:
      - Common items have 1 pt of rating per 10 gc of their price (e.g. heavy armour costs 50gc, so has rating of 5). Items cheaper than 10 gc have no rating, they're just not that important.
      - Rare items have a rating equal to their rarity (e.g. a blunderbuss is Rare 9, so has a rating of 9)
      - Ithilmar / gromril items add the rarity (9 or 11) to the rating of the weapon, consequently ithilmar armour counts as rare 11 light armour and gromril armour as rare 11 heavy armour.
      - Magical artifacts count as Rare 12 for rating purposes
      - Golden crowns in storage count as 1 pt of rating per 10 gc.

    2. In order to make each game more balanced, the warband with the highest rating must only bring to the battle a subset of its members. It must bring a combination of its members / equipment that reduces its rating to within 100 pts of the underdog (but never below). Leader must always be included. Heroes in reserve can't be used for exploration.

    3. In addition to the +1/+2 experience the underdog gets for fighting a warband with 50-75/75-100 more rating, they also get +5/+10 gcs.

Shooting
    1. First and foremost, there should be a limit on the number of warriors with range weapons in a fighting warband (no limit on range weapons on storage or warriors in reserve). Only 1/3 of the warriors (rounding up) can have range weapons and only 1 range weapon each (brace of pistols counts as 1). Additionally only up to 1 hero can have range weapons.
    2. In order to favour combat vs shooting, long range shooting is heavily penalised
      - No critical hits can be scored from a long range shot
      - When shooting from long range, the target gets a chance to avoid the shot. This could be either an initiative test or a dodge 5+ (not sure which one is better)
      - Long range shots count all cover as hard cover (see below)
    3. Maximum 1 blackpowder weapon in a fighting warband (no limit in storage)

Cover and terrain
    1. Line of sight clarifications: only the torso and head of a model are counted for line of sight. Arms, legs, bases, wings or other appendages do not count for line of sight.
    2. Changes to cover, intended to nerf shooting as well giving more cover
      - If up to 50% of the head and torso of a model is covered by terrain the model is in soft cover (-1 mod)
      - If more than 50% is covered and the cover is a building, wall, ruins, etc the model is in hard cover (-2 mod), otherwise it's soft cover
    4. Reduce the movement penalty of very difficult terrain to 1/3 of movement (rounding up). Or perhaps ignore very difficult terrain altogether.
    5. Changes to hiding, again to nerf shooting allowing models to hide easily
      - Any model with at least 50% of their body (torso & head) covered from all enemy models can choose to hide in the movement phase (think of this as kind of going to ground and out of sight)
      - Hidden models are discovered if an enemy model moves within their initiative range or to a position than can see more than 50% of the body.
      - Hidden models can charge out of hiding but must pass an initiative test to do so (because technically they do not have line of sight to the target). If they fail the test or fail the charge they are no longer hidden

Campaign
This is my suggestions on how to run the campaign, aimed to allow anyone to join/leave with no problem. It obviously depends on how many people we get to play in the campaign.
    1. Randomly determine who plays against who in the first round, making sure whenever possible that each starting warband has a matching starting warband. In case of odd numbers the leftout warband can have a free exploration at the end of the round with half (rounding up) of the heroes.
    2. Carry on like this making sure that matchings are not repeated, and rotating who is leftout for odd numbers of players
    3. Depending on how many players, we can run until everyone has played against everyone else once, or perhaps twice in case of low numbers (aiming for 5 - 6 games each at least)
    4. In case of newcomers halfway along the campaign, they start fighting the other players in increasing rating value.
    5. After a determined number of games each, we can have a grand finale, a custom scenario with the 3 or 4 highest ranking warbands to conquer Mordheim!

That is all I can remember from what we discussed yesterday, I'll edit if anything else comes to mind. Please comment or suggest on anything about what I wrote, it's possible that I went a bit too far with changes or that some things do not make sense.

Mvh
Tomas

P.S. Orc & goblin warband is more than welcome! I remember them being very fighty and strong. You can find their rules here
https://gurth.home.xs4all.nl/mordheim/Warbands/Orcs.pdf


As much as i like to see shooting nerfed a bit, I feel this is WAY over the top. Would it not be simpler to say that only 1/4 of the current warband, rounded down, may carry ranged weapons (spells not included), meaning that at max size of 20 (skaven/ orcs and goblins etc) there can only be 5 members carrying ranged weapons when the warband is at max strength. This means for starter warbands that tend to be around 10-12 members, maybe less, there will only be 2-3 ranged weapons. Ranged weapons should be part of the game, not dominant but neither excluded.

Another natural solution to ranged weapons would be changes to the armour rules. As it is now, loads of models have awesome sculpts and wearing armour of all sorts and shapes, but a ruleset that punishes the use of it. Armour is expensive, negated easily by STR and axes/Gromril weapons/ black powder weapons, limits the users speed (with heavy armour) and ATK output with shield, and is often negated by critical hits all together. The only thing armour is good against, is ranged weapons.

I would suggest:
- Leather armor: 6+ save, 5gc, available to all warbands that have light armour as an option.
- Light armor (chainmail, breastplates, typical "Medium armor" etc): 5+ save, 15gc
- Heavy armour (plate, plate and chain etc): 4+ save, -1 M with shield, 30gc
- Gromril: 3+ save, no penalty with shield, price unchanged (to represent the rarity).
- Ithilmar: 4+ save, no penalty with shield, price unchanged (to represent the rarity).

Shields is another concern. Looks cool, feels right, always outdone by an extra weapon.
So my suggestion is:
- Additional +1 save towards ranged attacks from the front. This alone would make shields part of nerfing ranged weapons a bit.

- Armor save never reduced less then 6+ when combined with a "hand weapon" (sword, axe, mace, club etc, not spears for an example).
OR
- An additional +1 save in close combat towards the front when combined with a hand weapon.

This change would encourage the use of shield for what it is, an invaluable piece of protective equipment, with the valid option of wielding two weapons by sacrificing protection for additional offensive output.

I have seen similar rules around the web, with positive effect on the health of this great game :)

My 2 cents.



_________________
"Give a man fire, and he is warm for a day. Put the man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life!"
"Sanity is for weaklings!"

Tobias
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InnleggSkrevet: Tor Nov 24, 2016 11:41 pm
TrencherInnlegg: 95Bosted: LillestrømRegistrert: Tor Jan 28, 2010 7:32 am
A summary of the agreed upon house rules today;

Equipment:
- A warband may not contain more models equipped with ranged weapons with a range of more than 6" than 1/3 of its members, rounded up.
So:
1-3 members: 1 ranged weapon
4-6 members: 2 ranged weapons
7-9 members: 3 ranged weapons
10-12 members: 4 ranged weapons
13-15 members: 5 ranged weapons
16-18 members: 6 ranged weapons
19-21 members: 7 ranged weapons

Spells do not count.

- Armor has been reworked; this to encourage use and as a natural counter to ranged attacks.
Leather armor: 6+ save, 5 gold.
Light armor: 5+ save, 15 gold.
Heavy armor: 4+ save, movement penalty of -1 when combined with shield, 30 gold.
Full plate: 3+ save, movement penalty of -1 when combined with shield, price unchanged.
Ithilmar armor: 4+ save, no penalty from shield, price unchanged.
Gromril armour: 3+ save, no penalty from shield, price unchanged.

- Shield provide an additional +1 to saves vs shooting (for a total of +2).
In addition, it has the rule Shieldwall:

Shieldwall; If two or more friendly models carrying and using shields are base to base and not knocked down or stunned, those models with the Shieldwall rule benefit from an +1 save to their armor save in melee.

Rules:
-When performing a climb check or a jump check (or a similar test of a physical nature), a model uses its initiative or strength stat for the test, whichever is highest. Checks to retain balance to avoid falling and similar tests related to reflexes and such are still initiative checks.

This is to reflect the fact that strong creatures may not be nimble, but climbing poses no issue if you are strong enough!

- A model will suffer from a penalty to hit of -1 if the model is in cover. If 50% or more of a model is covered, a ranged attack will suffer from a -2 penalty to hit (hard cover). If in doubt, roll a die and get on with it!

- Ranged attacks can not cause critical hits.

Edit: Forgot that ranged attacks may not cause critical hits. Added.

I think that sums up the house rules, write it down and comment if I left anything out! :)



_________________
"Give a man fire, and he is warm for a day. Put the man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life!"
"Sanity is for weaklings!"

Tobias
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