Are there ANY historical naval wargamers in Oslo?

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LouCoatney
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Are there ANY historical naval wargamers in Oslo?

Post by LouCoatney » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:31 am

L&MsBlue.jpg
My British L/AA and L&M class destroyers at 1/700
L&MsBlue.jpg (81.63 KiB) Viewed 3671 times
I think I have found 1 naval wargamer in all of Norway!

Do you Norwegians have some aversion to the sjø? :wink:

I like to run World War 2 naval games at any scale from 1:4800 (table top) to 1:700 (floor), although I prefer the latter and have designed cardstock model warships - including norsk jager Sleipner - to include in them.

(See my webpages http://www.CoatneyHistory.com and http://LCoat.tripod.com for some free plans and photos of my models.)

I use my own Naval Action miniature rules, which are far simpler and faster than most.

THANK YOU, Tor Erik at Outland, for putting me on to 2d6.

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:23 am

I have always wanted to be, although my preferred historical period for naval warfare has a cut-off point before WW2. I am, however, very interested i trying WW2 gaming. We have a 4x6 table at Outland painted as a dsrk North Sea seascape, from back in 2011 when Dystopian Wsrs was making the rounds...can that be used for anything?
-Kaptajnen

LouCoatney
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Post by LouCoatney » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:02 am

For 1/4800 tabletop, that would be perfect.

My naval miniatures system is fast, and I also want to play my new fast and relatively simple - Axis & Allies -like - Ardennes and Russian Front boardgames.

I'll plan on coming to Outland next Wednesday. What time do the games there start?

Og tusen takk for ... responding. :)

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:05 pm

I will want to get in a Warmachine/Hordes game as well, if time allows. Usually, people start to show up around 1530 but next week is pretty slow at work so I can be there earlier.
-Kaptajnen

LouCoatney
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Post by LouCoatney » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 pm

I'm retired, so I can be there anytime. Would you like to re-fight the Battle of Denmark Straits? :)

Bismarck and Prinz Eugen vs. Hood, Prince of Wales, Norfolk, and Suffolk

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 pm

Sounds like a plan. I will try to be there at 1500.
-Kaptajnen

LouCoatney
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Post by LouCoatney » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:32 pm

See you then. :)

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:13 pm

Well that was extremely entertaining! Nima and Ferdinand tried it too and had lots of fun :) I am considering buying some 1/4800 japanese ships - because giga-battleships are fun - but where can I find them?

...of course, there is a distinct shortage of Pacific Theatre naval battles that don't involve carrier airplanes bombing the stuffing out of battleships...Java Sea, perhaps?
-Kaptajnen

LouCoatney
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Post by LouCoatney » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:21 pm

Glad you guys enjoyed it, Endre. Shapeways has the listings of 3-D printed 1/4800 ships out now, and I'm pretty sure Japanese and American ships are well represented. I haven't gotten any myself, being on a tight budget over here, but you may get me started on them too. :-)

Besides Java Sea, there was the sinking of Exeter, the Battle off Samar, and the Battle of the Kommandorski Islands in daylight in the Pacific. In St. Louis, some years ago, Ray Runge and I had a hypothetical daylight Dec41 Battle off the Malayan Shore game - what if Prince of Wales and Repulse had *not* been sunk? - including my cardstock model of HMAS Perth. On Ray's Allied team was Andrew Waller, a chemical engineer in St. Louis at the time, who is the grandson of Perth's Captain Hec(tor) Waller, who died with his ship alongside USS Houston in Sunda Strait at the end of Feb42.

With Naval Action, I have run a night-time battle or two - specifically, the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (Nov42) with our cruisers and destroyers vs. Hiei, Kirishima, and a large flock of Japanese destroyers with their Long Lance torpedoes ... plus reloads at that time of the war!

It makes for a very suspenseful - fingernail-biting - situation.

I do have generic small-size cardboard warship markers for the different classes, if you wanted to try a Pacific game before your big delivery of 1/4800s comes in. :-)

Here is my After Action Report from last night. The Germans had a hard time of it in Denmark Strait in both games ... contrary to history ... and to what usually happens in a Naval Action game of the battle.

Well, for the first time I went to the Wednesday night miniatures and board games get-together at the big Outland game store in downtown Oslo, right near the Parliament building. I have been over here 5 years and have never been in it!

First, the store is BIG with emphasis on fantasy and roleplaying games and books and on boardgames of all kinds generally. The assembly toy giant Lego recently started Lego games, and Outland has a very large Lego section, including the ability to buy "bulk" quantities of general pieces ... like long white pieces for walls, etc.

There are also stuffed animals and creative toys, and the place was full of families.

The meeting room is downstairs. It is long and sufficiently wide so that good-sized gaming tables stick out along both sides.

I was at Outland, because Endre Fodstad had answered my inquiry on the local 2d6 - two 6-sided dice, you see :-) - Internet forum about whether there were ANY naval wargamers in Norway, and we had planned to get together at 3 PM for a naval miniatures wargame of the historical Battle of Denmark Strait - German superbattleship Bismarck (and heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen) vs. untried/unfinished Royal Navy battleship Prince of Wales and "good old" battle cruiser Hood (which, to the world's shock, blew up and sank during the battle. See also the classic film Sink the Bismarck! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFWwPYB74ac starting at 34:00 for one of the finest (large model) ship blowup scenes in cinematographic history. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/even ... smk-c3.htm has actual photos.)

I had things all set up when Endre appeared, and he brought out a large, perfectly-sized blue-painted seascape board we set on our table.

For our game, we used the relatively fast, simple Naval Action game rules I've authored. Endre chose to be the British, and we started off. My objective was to get Bismarck (or at least Prinz Eugen) past them (out into the Atlantic to go convoy-raiding). Endre's was to stop me or at least cause significant damage that would enable other pursuing Royal Navy ships to sink mine or curtail their raiding.

So we started off at maximum range. Because of the chronic malfunctioning of the King George Class battleships' longrange 14" guns, I have KGV-class battleships like Prince of Wales first roll 2 or 1 dice (depending on whether or not both bow and stern batteries were clear to fire), to see how many guns are actually functioning per turn's gunfire phase.

Hood's armor was well-known to be weak - I have, from eBay a 1940 German Luftwaffe ship identification book which actually says that - and presumably because of its larger and more dangerous 15" guns, Bismarck historically fired on Hood first before Prince of Wales. (I have read that Admiral Holland (who died with Hood) had planned to have PoW with its tougher armor in the lead, but things didn't work out that way because of the angles of encounter.)

In any case, I told Endre that I would be firing on the nearest ship first, and he wisely had Prince of Wales slightly leading Hood.

Against the odds, I (typically) managed to roll one white-die 6 - Automatic Miss - after another, while - even with PoW's malfunctioning guns and relatively small-(7, in the game )caliber shells (against Bismarck's 9-factor superbattleship armor) he managed to score a penetrating, Damaging hit! This went on, until ... although I scored some damage in return ... both Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were very unhistorically sunk! :-o

Not just because he won ... :-) ... Endre seemed impressed by Naval Action's speed and ease of play and urged others nearby to try the game out, so Nima and Ferdinand agreed to try it out. (I sensed some hesitation. Some naval miniatures game systems are VERY complex and slow to play - 3 minutes of real/historical time taking 30 minutes of playtime, in some cases - which can be a permanently discouraging experience. I once had the same experience and decided there had to be (made) something better.)

In our game, Nima took Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, while Ferdinand - even knowing Prince of Wales' problem with its guns - took PoW, and I took Hood.

Nima angled Prinz Eugen to the SSE and Bismark to the SSW, and we accordingly separated - me with Hood angling toward Bismarck, and Ferdinand squaring off with Bismarck.

Initially, Nima had both Bismarck and then PE shooting at PoW, while - once I was finally within range - I had Hood firing at Bismarck ... and rolling one Automatic Miss white-die 6 after another ... of course.

At one point, Bismarck had Prince of Wales Heavily Damaged, but Good British damage control recovered PoW to just Damaged condition, and Ferdinand then switched its fire to now-closer Prinz Eugen, soon scoring heavy damage on that, with the disparity between PoW's 7-caliber guns and PE's 5-strength (heavy cruiser) armor.

I think reluctant to suffer the -2 on the die roll penalty for shifting fire to acquire a new target - and thanks to my 6-rolling inability to score ANY hits - Nima was ignoring my Hood, until H had closed within 1/3 range (10,000 yds)! ... at which time I FINALLY scored a hit, and it penetrated to cause Damage.

Then came Damage Control, and on a 1/6 chance, Bismarck's damage *worsened* to Heavy Damage!

(In the game, as much for play balance as history, I had the British having Good and the Germans Poor damage control, but I now wonder if by May 1941 German damage control had improved over what it had been in Norway in 1940. Maybe I should ask David Manley, Britain's pre-eminent naval wargamer.)

Even at such close range, Heavily Damaged Bismarck could not score a retaliatory hit on Hood (which could have blown Hood right out of the water at that range), and Hood finished Bismarck off, while Ferdinand's Prince of Wales finished off Prinz Eugen for another unhistorical (and against-the-odds) British victory.

Although his Germans had lost, to my happy surprise Nima was *really* enthusiastic about playing another naval miniatures game sometime, as was Ferdinand, with maybe a few more ships and players. So I think I may now alternate going to meetings - Ares for boardgames and Outland for naval miniatures.

However, Endre told me that even at Ares I should get the ships out so that people might try out a game and like it too. He also gave me a few names of others who might be interested. (Fred Forde was one of the names, and I was able to tell Endre that Fred and I are already good wargame opponents and friends.)

For my wargaming interests - both for boardgaming and naval miniatures - I am finding myself to be in an ideal situation, here in Oslo (Norway)! :-)

Not only is this inspiration to continue naval wargaming: I have GOT to get back to finishing my books of cardstock paper model World War 2 warship designs!

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Post by Coleslaw » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:26 pm

All 3 players that tested where really enthusiastic for your game when we were discussing in the pub afterwards! So I think you must have done something right :-).
Hope I get some time to try it next time.

/Andreas
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LouCoatney
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Post by LouCoatney » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:53 pm

Tusen takk, Andreas. :) I'm *tentatively* planning on being back the week after next, på onsdag 30Jun14.

Maybe we can run the scenario of Renown's encounter with Gneisenau and Scharnhorst off Norway in 1940.

And if Endre is interested, maybe we'll then also have the time to try the Battle of the Kommandorski Islands with my little generic/abstract 2-D cardboard "ships."

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:20 pm

Sounds like fun! I am going to Trondheim tuesday, though, and won't be back until late wednesday after that so I might not make the Renowns faceoff with the Kriegsmarine's cruisers :)

I am wondering if you should show up at NM in October. I am sure you might find more interested parties...
-Kaptajnen

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Post by LouCoatney » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:04 pm

Did anyone want to get together for a Naval Action naval miniatures game at Outland, tomorrow/onsdag kveld?

Kaptajn Congoboy
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Post by Kaptajn Congoboy » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:05 pm

Hmmm...the printing quality seems quite a bit behind the 3d models, to put it mildly. I'll se if I can get the ships based sometime this weekend to see for myself (they're printed in a transparent material).
-Kaptajnen

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Post by LouCoatney » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:45 pm

I have Daddy Duty again tomorrow night, so won't be able to make it to Outland. :|

How are your Pacific ships coming along, Endre? Any particular battle/scenario you would like me to make out the ship status sheets for?

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