Khador 50p - Nybegynner

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amir90
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Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 pm

Khador 50p - Nybegynner

Post by amir90 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:53 pm

Hei alle sammen! Trenger litt tips angående valg av warjacks, eventuell andre forslag til forandringer. Jeg liker veldig godt Irusk 2 og vil gjerne holde meg til han. Målet var å ha en hær med winterguard blob og iron fang pikemen blob.
Det jeg er usikker på er hvilken warjack som kan hjelpe til mest.
Jeg har veldig lyst å bruke Conquest, men han koster en del å få fieldet. Så jeg har ikke bestilt han helt ennå :)

Her er listen så langt:
War Room Army

Khador - Irusk22 copy

53 / 55 (50+5) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 1 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 2 Units : 4

Supreme Kommandant Irusk - WJ: +5
- War Dog
- Conquest - PC: 19

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 2
Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 2

Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 3
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 6
- 3 1 Rocketeer's: 3
- Winter Guard Officer & Standard - Winter Guard Officer & Standard 2
Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Iron Fang Officer & Standard - Iron Fang Officer & Standard 2
- Black Dragon Officer & Standard - PC: 2
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 5 Grunts: 3

---

GENERATED : 04/08/2014 00:47:30

Kombinert med irusk 2 og han sine passive abilities og spells så tror jeg disse blobene blir veldig tøffe å få vekk.

Rinion
Trencher
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Sandnes

Post by Rinion » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:50 pm

Hey!

Have had some success with eIrusk, both Behemoth and Conquest work best (Fire For Effect on Conquest, and Energiser +aiming/charging for Behemoth)

Your list looks good for a Conquest based one! You could drop the mechanics to minimum and get Sylys Wyshnalyrr for Irusk instead of the War Dog. He gives him an extra focus by letting up upkeep one spell for free, and Arcane Secrets for emergency Airbursting of something important like Gorman.

For Behemoth, if you wanted to keep the WGI, you might have to double up on the Pikemen, something like:

Supreme Kommandant Irusk
*Behemoth
*Sylys Wyshnalyrr

Iron Fang Pikemen Max
*Black Dragon Officer and Standard

Iron Fang Pikemen Max
*Black Dragon Officer and Standard

Winter Guard Infantry Max
*Officer and Standard
*Rocketeers x3

Great Bears of Gallowswood

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
Iron Fang Kovnik

Hope this helps!

Jetlag
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Oslo

Post by Jetlag » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:32 pm

først av alt. Ser vi deg på rookie mistake?

så over til khador. Irusk2 er en veldig god caster. Som du sier holder han troppene i live, og det er en god start.

Det jeg ville tatt med irusk2 er:

mortar (hver gang, alltid med fire for effect)
iron fang pikemen + ua + kovnik (though + ingen knockdown + battlelust + tactical supremacy)
great bears (koko gode med battle lust, hvis du får de frem, husk at kovnik gjør den imun mot KD)
widowmakers (fordi de skal være med i alle khador lister.)
spriggan (energizer + charge + reach = 12")
eller
behemot ( sammen med mortar og 2 pow 14 skudd kan du tvinge motstanderen frem)

til og med shocktroopers kan fungere på grunn av tactical supremacy, gjerne sammen med noen billige jacks feks 2 juggernauter. skaper en liten vegg der irusk kan gjemme seg bak på feat.

Kayazy assasins er også bra å ha. Tenker de kommer fint frem med tactical supremacy og battlelust gjør dem ganske så bra sammen med gang. Eventuelt 1-2 kayazy eliminators.

ville ikke tatt med winter guards, da de trenger iron flesh for å fungere optimalt. et alternativ er nysshhunters med valachev. men du spiller med en blink midt på bordet. Ville vurdert Ogrun bokur også. Siden man er litt sårbar mot skudd den runden man går frem og feater.

Som nevnt sylys er fin å ha. Men personlig kutter jeg han litt for ofte for å være mer offansiv.

lykke til :)
-Sir, we are completely surrounded
-Excellent, this means we can attack in any direction

Valyss
Electromancer
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Post by Valyss » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:24 am

eIrusk er så absolutt en morsom caster og fungerer bra for det meste av vårt infanteri og kraftige enkeltskudd modeller.

Jeg har lekt litt med forskjellige lister for han, men ender alltid opp med samme stamme:

Spriggan
2x iron fang kovnik
2x iron fang pikemen m black dragon ua
Widowmakers
Winter guard mortar crew

Til sammen legger disse beslag på 36 poeng og utnytter det meste Irusk har å tilby.
24 fearless, tough, no knockdown pikemen med precision strike som flytter 8" i shieldwall gjør noe med selvtilliten på tur inn i slaget.
Mortar med fire for effect har sin appell det også.

De siste poengene varierer mer, men nyss hunters med valachev er sjelden feil, til tross for prisen på 12 poeng. Flares fra spriggan for å lyse opp stealth og skyt løs..
Kommer de nærme nok, battle lust og charge gjennom pikemen screen og småpene 5d6+9 i skade.

Lykke til

amir90
Electromancer
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 pm

Post by amir90 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:03 am

I will keep my replies in English, so that Rinion can be apart of the conversation :)
Rinion wrote:Hey!.... Hope this helps!

Hey, thank you for your reply!

It is the warhammer gamer in me that wants the Conquest model, even though as many have mentioned, it will limit what kind of list I can build. Considering it costs a 1/3 of a 50p list.
Yet, I am drawned to it´s size and potential power. A behemoth however would give me more leeway to have different lists. It would also be a lot easier on my wallet...

Do you recommend anything else than double pikeman unit in the behemoth list?
I personally would rather have one blob of WI and PI + something else. Not sure what yet.
Am I correct in understanding that you can only have 1 UA for the pikemen unit?
Jetlag wrote:først av alt. Ser vi deg på rookie mistake?
Doubt it, if it was the weekend after the set date, I could have joined.But all of my exams are in May and early June.

så over til khador. Irusk2 er en veldig god caster. Som du sier holder han troppene i live, og det er en god start. I totally agree, Irusk2 will make it a lot easier for me when I need position my troops.
mortar (hver gang, alltid med fire for effect) (with Irusk2 spell, this is a must. Looking forward to actually hitting something. Might take Rinion´s advice on Sylvys, so I have a focus extra.
widowmakers (fordi de skal være med i alle khador lister.) How would you deploy and use them? I usually advance deploy in a forest, but they usually die in the 2nd round. Is the widowmaker solo worth it for switf hunter?
spriggan (energizer + charge + reach = 12") As the only jack in a list?
eller
behemot ( sammen med mortar og 2 pow 14 skudd kan du tvinge motstanderen frem)
Indeed.

til og med shocktroopers kan fungere på grunn av tactical supremacy, gjerne sammen med noen billige jacks feks 2 juggernauter. skaper en liten vegg der irusk kan gjemme seg bak på feat. How about the berserker dudes or widowmakers behind them, as they can shoot and charge through them? (or maybe the Irusk 2 ability doesn´t apply to charges)

Kayazy assasins er også bra å ha. Tenker de kommer fint frem med tactical supremacy og battlelust gjør dem ganske så bra sammen med gang. Eventuelt 1-2 kayazy eliminators. I personally prefer the eliminators, the assassins requires the solo to be effective, and it is only a mini-feat. At least you have more units.

ville ikke tatt med winter guards, da de trenger iron flesh for å fungere optimalt. et alternativ er nysshhunters med valachev. men du spiller med en blink midt på bordet. Ville vurdert Ogrun bokur også. Siden man er litt sårbar mot skudd den runden man går frem og feater.Ogrun bokur sounds good, but as you mention afterwards, it depends whetever or not how offensive you want to be.

lykke til :)Thank you, looking forward to painting and using most of these models :)
Valyss wrote:eIrusk er så absolutt en morsom caster og fungerer bra for det meste av vårt infanteri og kraftige enkeltskudd modeller.

Jeg har lekt litt med forskjellige lister for han, men ender alltid opp med samme stamme:

Spriggan
2x iron fang kovnik
2x iron fang pikemen m black dragon ua
Widowmakers
Winter guard mortar crew

Til sammen legger disse beslag på 36 poeng og utnytter det meste Irusk har å tilby.
24 fearless, tough, no knockdown pikemen med precision strike som flytter 8" i shieldwall gjør noe med selvtilliten på tur inn i slaget.
Mortar med fire for effect har sin appell det også.

De siste poengene varierer mer, men nyss hunters med valachev er sjelden feil, til tross for prisen på 12 poeng. Flares fra spriggan for å lyse opp stealth og skyt løs..
Kommer de nærme nok, battle lust og charge gjennom pikemen screen og småpene 5d6+9 i skade.

Lykke til
That list looks pretty scary, but I feel WI benefits more from the ability to shoot through your own models. Not having to worry to much about a gun line is an advantage I want to have. I think I have to do decide which warjack I want to use with my Irusk2 list, as it seems to decide what I want to do with the rest of my list.

Dagowit
Ghetorix
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 3:52 pm

Post by Dagowit » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:49 pm

amir90 wrote:How about the berserker dudes or widowmakers behind them, as they can shoot and charge through them? (or maybe the Irusk 2 ability doesn´t apply to charges)
Charges are Advances, so I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that the ability is CMD, not CTRL, so you need to keep everything fairly Close to Irusk to make it work.

Also, if the "berserker dudes" are Doom Reavers, beware Abomination. You don't want them near any non-Fearless models!

Jetlag
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Oslo

Post by Jetlag » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:21 pm

the doom reavers (berserkers) are ok. but i don´t like them in an irusk list. You want to have battle lust available, and the doom reavers have spell ward.

the doom reavers are comparable to great bears. Which makes the great bears a better option in Irusk lists.

I see allot of double ironfang list around. Personally i don´t like to go that hard into one unit type. in my opinion variation is an better option. when you meet someone who handles them well, you are probably fucked. ok you probably have two lists and all that. But suddenly you are bound to take the second list because one of them is a sure loss.

What you could focus on is building list that can take on a wide variation of lists. You probably have more tougher match ups and fights. And you probably have a weaker list on paper, but I am sure you will end up winning more. unless you are only playing in a small group. then you might win every battle, but you will not become any better warmachine player.

Try the winterguard infantry, you might find a way for them to work. Hell try the winter guard riflemen. They might be very good in irusk, shoot through the ironfang unit. maybe alexia and the risen is great with both winterguard and ironfang. try that

Try everything. You can´t get the widowmakers to work. They have never let me down. People play units differently. Whatever works for you is an good army. But consider the game dynamics when building lists. Can you force your opponent forward? do you have the initiative? Can you play the scenario or do you want to grind your opponent down. ++
-Sir, we are completely surrounded
-Excellent, this means we can attack in any direction

Valyss
Electromancer
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Post by Valyss » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:25 pm

amir90 wrote:I will keep my replies in English, so that Rinion can be apart of the conversation :)
We should have his girlfriend teach him some norwegian anytime soon. As long as he's here beating us in every tourney, he damned well should speak the language :D :twisted:


That list looks pretty scary, but I feel WI benefits more from the ability to shoot through your own models. Not having to worry to much about a gun line is an advantage I want to have. I think I have to do decide which warjack I want to use with my Irusk2 list, as it seems to decide what I want to do with the rest of my list.

That's the beauty of adding Valachev to the nyss. They become faction models taking advantage of tough and all the other abilities Irusk bring to the table. And with zephyr you get a range 15 aimed shot or 22 normal shot and as long as Cylena lives you can do combined range ( try it out with fire for effect one time.) Their base defence 15 makes them a lot more survivable then non iron fleshed winter guards as well... If you can keep aoes off them

amir90
Electromancer
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 pm

Post by amir90 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:23 am

Dagowit wrote:
amir90 wrote:How about the berserker dudes or widowmakers behind them, as they can shoot and charge through them? (or maybe the Irusk 2 ability doesn´t apply to charges)
Charges are Advances, so I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that the ability is CMD, not CTRL, so you need to keep everything fairly Close to Irusk to make it work.

Also, if the "berserker dudes" are Doom Reavers, beware Abomination. You don't want them near any non-Fearless models!
I was thinking of using Kovnik to give the WI fearless, but that probably wouldn´t be cost effective.
Jetlag wrote:the doom reavers (berserkers) are ok. but i don´t like them in an irusk list. You want to have battle lust available, and the doom reavers have spell ward.

the doom reavers are comparable to great bears. Which makes the great bears a better option in Irusk lists.

I see allot of double ironfang list around. Personally i don´t like to go that hard into one unit type. in my opinion variation is an better option. when you meet someone who handles them well, you are probably fucked. ok you probably have two lists and all that. But suddenly you are bound to take the second list because one of them is a sure loss.

What you could focus on is building list that can take on a wide variation of lists. You probably have more tougher match ups and fights. And you probably have a weaker list on paper, but I am sure you will end up winning more. unless you are only playing in a small group. then you might win every battle, but you will not become any better warmachine player.

Try the winterguard infantry, you might find a way for them to work. Hell try the winter guard riflemen. They might be very good in irusk, shoot through the ironfang unit. maybe alexia and the risen is great with both winterguard and ironfang. try that

Try everything. You can´t get the widowmakers to work. They have never let me down. People play units differently. Whatever works for you is an good army. But consider the game dynamics when building lists. Can you force your opponent forward? do you have the initiative? Can you play the scenario or do you want to grind your opponent down. ++
I also don´t like going too much of one unit.

I think the reason I have always disliked winter guard rifle corps is that they counter-intutivtely designed. They have a higher range than most infantry and other units can shoot through them. Would have been much more interesting if they could shoot through other units. (Not that matters in an irusk list anyway).

I will probably keep using the widowsmakers, they have way too many uses to ignore. I will just have to practise spreading them more and not putting them in unesseceary danger.
Valyss wrote:
amir90 wrote:I will keep my replies in English, so that Rinion can be apart of the conversation :)
We should have his girlfriend teach him some norwegian anytime soon. As long as he's here beating us in every tourney, he damned well should speak the language :D :twisted:


That list looks pretty scary, but I feel WI benefits more from the ability to shoot through your own models. Not having to worry to much about a gun line is an advantage I want to have. I think I have to do decide which warjack I want to use with my Irusk2 list, as it seems to decide what I want to do with the rest of my list.

That's the beauty of adding Valachev to the nyss. They become faction models taking advantage of tough and all the other abilities Irusk bring to the table. And with zephyr you get a range 15 aimed shot or 22 normal shot and as long as Cylena lives you can do combined range ( try it out with fire for effect one time.) Their base defence 15 makes them a lot more survivable then non iron fleshed winter guards as well... If you can keep aoes off them
Is Valachev a merc? I cannot find him in war room and battle college doesn´t specifiy which faction he belongs to. But the combination sounds deadly indeed!

I am still pondering to what warjack to get. I like my juggernaut and destroyer, but neither of them are powerful enough to justify just fielding only one jack. So the choices are now between the conquest, behemoth and the spriggan. The demolisher looks interesting as well, but since I already own a Devastator, I rather wait till I have some guns I can put on it´s shoulder.

Thanks for all your help so far guys. Just finished painting Irusk2, will post pictures when the base effects have dried up.

Valyss
Electromancer
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Post by Valyss » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:42 am

Valachev is an attachment, now added after selecting the unit in war room.

Warjack for Irusk havent really been a priority in my book. Conquest is always fun, but allthough ffe on the main gun is a good thing, I usually don't find the points for him. I love the behemoth, but I prefer it with other casters as Irusk want to spend focus on his infantry. Spriggan is a fail safe choice. Hard to kill, provides flares to reveal those stealthy guys and bulldoze as a bonus. I dont often get anything from him offensivly, but thats me playing him wrong. I have been tempted to run irusk with a berserker... Runs for free and then kill it off for +4 cover for Irusk. Sounds sad and very mk1, but that's how little I credit a jack under irusk2.

amir90
Electromancer
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 pm

Post by amir90 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:42 am

Valyss wrote:Valachev is an attachment, now added after selecting the unit in war room.

Warjack for Irusk havent really been a priority in my book. Conquest is always fun, but allthough ffe on the main gun is a good thing, I usually don't find the points for him. I love the behemoth, but I prefer it with other casters as Irusk want to spend focus on his infantry. Spriggan is a fail safe choice. Hard to kill, provides flares to reveal those stealthy guys and bulldoze as a bonus. I dont often get anything from him offensivly, but thats me playing him wrong. I have been tempted to run irusk with a berserker... Runs for free and then kill it off for +4 cover for Irusk. Sounds sad and very mk1, but that's how little I credit a jack under irusk2.
Ahh, now I understand the combo of Valachev+Nyss hunters.
The berserker looks interesting indeed.

Rinion
Trencher
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Sandnes

Post by Rinion » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:12 am

Valyss wrote:
amir90 wrote:I will keep my replies in English, so that Rinion can be apart of the conversation :)
We should have his girlfriend teach him some norwegian anytime soon. As long as he's here beating us in every tourney, he damned well should speak the language :D :twisted:
Appreciate it being kept in English, but didnt mean to impose upon the rest of you =p

With Nyss, theyre good with him, but then, theyre good with anyone! I like to keep them in whichever list you use to beat Cryx with! Either Old Witch, they like Weald Secrets for Def 19, since they hang out in trees anyhow, or Sorscha, since she likes guns, lots of guns! Valachev isnt necessary, though, but Zephyr is good!

They do work with Irusk, though! Tac Supremacy+Zephyr is a 6" Move after they shoot! 3 of which can be before they shoot, pretty funny.
amir90 wrote: I was thinking of using Kovnik to give the WI fearless, but that probably wouldn´t be cost effective.
They'll often be fearless/tough on the way in anyway, because of the short range on the guns, at least when i use them!
amir90 wrote: I also don´t like going too much of one unit.

I think the reason I have always disliked winter guard rifle corps is that they counter-intutivtely designed. They have a higher range than most infantry and other units can shoot through them. Would have been much more interesting if they could shoot through other units. (Not that matters in an irusk list anyway).

I will probably keep using the widowsmakers, they have way too many uses to ignore. I will just have to practise spreading them more and not putting them in unesseceary danger.
WGRC are... okay. They have their uses, with a pButcher gunline style list, or with pVlad becasue Signs and Portents makes them "rat 7 pow 12" sort of. Used them in pSorscha sometimes, but if you can afford the points, Nyss are usually better..

Pikemen are also one of those units its okay running double of, especially with the Kovnik and Black Dragon UA being FA2 both. You also have Shocktroopers though, which as someone said, work decent with Tactical Supremacy, and with the new Kovnik they effectively go 9" per turn in shield wall. Not tried them myself at all, though!

For a 'jack for him, though, like most Khador casters he needs his focus for other stuff than 'jacks, but any can be made to do work following up the infantry blob. Just have to see what works! Spriggan, Behemoth, or Conquest are top choices, as always! Depends where they are in other lists!

Khador 'jacks arent really the best, but am starting to put more heavies in my lists recently!

Hope this helps, early morning rambling and all that =p

amir90
Electromancer
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 pm

Post by amir90 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:27 pm

[quote="Rinion"][/quote]
I apprecieate the input you guys give.

As promised here is Irusk 2, fully painted.
I think I need to work on my photography as the pictures makes the paint job look even worse than it actually is :P

Code: Select all

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/af42salvejxc354/w92jW1L5rj

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